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  • Episode 28: Binge-Worthy Content Experiences for HCPs: Why They Are the Key to Engaging HCPs in the Post-COVID World

Binge-Worthy Content Experiences for HCPs: Why They Are the Key to Engaging HCPs in the Post-COVID World

with Randy Frisch, Chief Brand Officer and Co-Founder at Uberflip

  • Content Experience: why 80% of content is never even consumed?
  • If Netflix can do it, why can’t we? How do you organize your content for the ultimate personal customer experience using Netflix as a template? 
  • How much content is needed to be able to engage doctors repeatedly and continuously?
  • Content Tagging: why it’s critical to content being used in the first place?
  • 11.2 touch points: how to measure success vs. failure with content?
  • Three elements of a binge-worthy content experience
  • 5-step framework for creating a content experience

To answer these questions, Bozidar is joined by Randy Frisch, Chief Brand Officer and Co-Founder at Uberflip. 

Topics Covered in this Episode

  • [ 02:04 ] - Over 80% of content created remains unused for various reasons:
      - The lack of centralized organization makes it hard for users to find content. 
      - Ineffective tagging and search optimization result in content not appearing in relevant searches. 
      - Mismatched content and audience intent leads to disinterest.
      - Lack of personalization which fails to engage users.
      - Inadequate content distribution prevents reaching the intended audience.
    To combat this, companies should focus on centralizing content, optimizing searchability, aligning content with audience needs, personalizing experiences, and improving distribution. By addressing these challenges, content consumption rates can be improved, ensuring that efforts in content creation are not wasted.
  • [ 06:13 ] - Take a page from Netflix's playbook to create the ultimate personal customer experience with your content. Categorize your content into themes, topics, or buyer personas, akin to Netflix genres, making it easy for users to navigate. Analyze user interactions to offer personalized recommendations, just like Netflix suggests shows based on viewing history. Tag and add metadata for searchability, helping users quickly find what they need. Craft personalized content journeys for different buyer personas, aligning content with their specific needs at each stage. Monitor user engagement metrics to improve the experience and continuously recommend relevant resources. Ensure a user-friendly interface, optimizing for different devices and seamless transitions. By adopting Netflix-inspired strategies, you can deliver exceptional, personalized experiences. Users will appreciate finding relevant content effortlessly, increasing engagement, and being guided through their customer journey.
  • [ 11:40 ] - Engaging doctors repeatedly and continuously doesn't rely on the quantity of content but rather its quality and relevance. Doctors have limited time and specific information needs. To engage them effectively, focus on creating targeted content that addresses their challenges and demonstrates your expertise. Rather than overwhelming them with abundant content, prioritize delivering valuable insights and solutions. Understand their buyer journey and deliver content at the right time and through accessible platforms. By optimizing your content strategy to meet their preferences, you can nurture meaningful relationships and empower doctors to find the information they need without relying solely on search engines like Google.
  • [ 16:58 ] - Content tagging is a critical aspect of content management, ensuring that content is effectively used and reaches the right audience. Organizations can enhance content discovery and personalization by assigning relevant tags to each piece of content. Tags provide valuable information about the industry, buyer persona, stage in the buyer's journey, and topics covered, enabling efficient organization and retrieval of content. This tagging process is essential for content recommendation and automation systems, enabling personalized experiences by matching the right content to the right audience. Marketers can create content hubs or digital sales rooms that present tailored content to buyers by leveraging data insights, such as intent data. Content may get lost or fail to reach its intended audience without proper tagging, resulting in missed engagement opportunities. Content tagging is crucial in optimizing content utilization, ensuring relevance, and driving meaningful customer experiences.
  • [ 24:17 ] - To create a binge-worthy content experience, Randy elaborates on three elements. The first element is personalization, based on knowing the individual's identity. This can be achieved through cookies or intent data, allowing the website to greet visitors by name and provide a customized experience. The second element is setting context by explaining why the content is relevant to the individual. This helps establish trust and ensures that the content below will interest them. By incorporating first-party data or intent data, the website can tailor the introductory copy to the visitor's specific industry or location. The third and most crucial element is surfacing the right content. This involves leveraging the tagging and indexing techniques discussed earlier to present a curated selection of 6 to 10 pieces of content that are highly relevant to the buyer's journey. Combining these three elements creates a binge-worthy and highly engaging content experience. Randy emphasizes that all three elements are necessary for success, as relying on just one of them will not be sufficient.
  • [ 31:29 ] - Randy discusses a five-step framework for creating a content experience that maximizes the impact of content marketing efforts of pharmaceutical companies. The first step is centralization, where all forms of content are brought together in one place to provide a unified experience for the audience. The second step is organization, which involves applying tagging methodologies to categorize and match content to relevant search queries and internal stakeholders' needs. The third step is personalization, where the centralized and organized content is leveraged to create tailored experiences for different audience segments. The fourth step is distribution, using a content experience platform to easily share content through various channels with a single link. The final step is analysis, where the results of the content experience are analyzed to understand what is working and identify gaps in the customer journey, leading to informed content creation efforts. By following this framework, organizations can focus on delivering a cohesive and engaging content experience that resonates with their audience.

If you want to learn more about leading a successful pharma marketing campaign in the US, tune in to this episode of Pharma Launch Secrets, a Podcast by Evermed.

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About the Podcast

Pharma Launch Secrets” is a podcast by Evermed and hosted by CEO Bozidar Jovicevic, where we host direct, actionable conversations with world-leading pharma launch experts and help you stay up-to-date with the latest trends and strategies to help you launch your product successfully.

Episode Transcript

Bozidar: Hello and welcome to the new episode of the Pharma Launch Secrets podcast. Today, I have a pleasure of being joined by Randy Frisch. He is a best-selling author, Speaker and a Chief Evangelist and Co-Founder and President of Uberflip. Uberflip is the leading content experience platform. That's the topic that we will be talking about today. He is also an author of the best selling book on the same topic of the Content Experience and Marketo, marketing automation platform. Named him in the original Fierce 50 marketeers. I hope I got it right. So welcome, Randy. 

Randy: Thanks so much. It's great to be here.

Bozidar: All right, I can't wait to discuss with you today about the topic of Content Experience and dive deep into it. Pharma executives who are launching products knowing that they have 60% chances of failing with a multibillion dollar investment that went into clinical development are more and more curious about how to strategically use content to engage doctors and be able to open the door to their Reps or use content just without having a Reps channel. So when I read your book, really impressed with what you guys are doing. I think this is a very important topic for the pharma industry, medical societies, hospitals, anyone trying to engage doctors and educate them. But one of the things that was first on my mind when I was reading the book is the term Content Experience. And if you can please share what do you mean by that, whether that category already exists and how would you describe it to someone who is new to the term?

Randy: Yeah, no, I'm happy to do it. And to give everyone a little bit of a history lesson, I kind of had to create this term with my co-founder some ten years ago because the term that a lot of us are more familiar with, I believe, is content marketing. And the idea of content marketing should have, in theory, been able to cover all bases. In an ideal world, it would have suggested the art of creating content as well as getting that content in front of our buyers. But over the years, and this happens a lot of time with innovation, we intend for a category to be created that covers all bases, but we don't really get beyond first base because we get so bogged down in the execution of getting it off the ground. And I think that was the case with content marketing. For a lot of us who think about content marketing, we think about the people on our team who create that content, the people who write e-books and white papers and thesis approaches. When you get into definitely some of the medical trades and that's some really complex things to do. And it takes a skill, it's a very different skill set than putting content in front of your buyer. Right? How we put it out in front of someone. And I always use the example of going back to where content was maybe existing before it came into business, which was journalism, right. When you think about it, the person who was writing the articles that would land in your magazine or your newspaper was not the same person responsible for getting that newspaper or magazine into people's laps and figuring out the layout of what articles would show up where. These are two different practices and in digital media, there's opportunities to really dynamically put that together. So for today, I want everyone to try and think about content marketing as that art of content creation. Whereas content experience is more the element of how do I package the right assets for the right buyer at the right time? And that gets us into the world of personalization. And we'll definitely use some examples today, I'm guessing, to talk about things that we may learn from consumer experiences. Netflix, Spotify are a couple that come up most often, but not forgetting that in the medical trade and as well as other more sophisticated buyer cycles, it's a lot more complex than the average consumer purchase.

Bozidar: Yeah. Yes. And there are certain differences, of course, at the end of the day whether someone is buying a product or prescribing. So interesting enough, for example, for pharma companies, their end user is a patient. The person who makes a decision usually is a doctor and they're prescribing, so they're not paying out their pocket. But the process of going through the experience of learning about something like a concept, going through the funnel, if you will, is pretty much similar. There is awareness, there's consideration, there is decision. There are all these stages, top, middle, bottom of the funnel, that lead to someone making a decision to prescribe or buy something. So in a sense, a lot of things are similar. Of course, difference is a little bit more harder to produce content and a little bit more regulated. And what you put inside really, really matters because it can affect people's lives pretty directly. However, the fundamentals, at least for what I see, quite similar. Now, also what's interesting for the world of medical education, whether it's patient or physicians, it's often used as a bad example of a content experience. And going into good examples versus bad examples, which I would love to hear from you. Oftentimes people think, oh, let's say I'm a patient, I'm going to type something about the disease in Google and I'm going to end up with text-based articles, mostly text based, which in 2023 is a little bit worrisome and they're going to be bazillion ads flying around. I read one paragraph, there is already my website is like slowly loading. There are video ads and all that if you're a doctor. The other side experience are, I would say brutal. It's like static slow search capabilities. Like so doctors are almost used to pain when it comes to how the content is delivered, like what kind of experience. I'm just talking about this on demand settings, conveniently searching for information. So what are some of the good examples versus bad examples of content experience so we can really understand the concept?

Randy: Well, let's start with the reality, which is the first thing is there's a lot of different ways to go and create a content experience. We can do that with a content management system, a CMS. Sometimes if we're focused more on blog content, we may have just a really good blog that's living in WordPress or something of that sort that could be more advanced and more catered to a specific industry. And even within that you hit on a lot of the really important factors in terms of speed, in terms of loading, in terms of adjusting from my mobile advice that I might be on to my desktop. All of these really though, are the baseline expectations. This should be fixed today. And there's no reason whether you're using a CMS, you built something through an agency that can do all sorts of fancy things for you or you're ready to look at a content experience platform. Now, the difference between those first examples I gave you, where you go to your agency and they build you something pretty and you take control. On the other hand, with a content experience platform is content experience platforms are typically designed to go beyond just the aesthetics, beyond just the environment, if you will, to start thinking about a couple of other buckets. And those other buckets to me are simply explained as structure and engagement. So when we think about structure, and I know over at Evermed, this is an area that you focus a lot on is Netflix and the analogies with the Netflix like experience. When we go to Netflix, they have simply structured tens of thousands of pieces of content into categories that help us zero in and have focus. Now I want to take you back to the example that you gave where a doctor goes on to the web and somehow looks for content. Now let's assume that you as the vendor selling in, you as that launching this new Pharma product can get on their radar and get to their website. The risk is in any browser they are a simple click away from just going, as you said, to Google and continuing their search to find other relevant content around that. So what we want to do is we want to avoid their mind going there, we want to avoid their fingers going there. And these are splitsecond decisions that happen as to whether I go and search in other places. So our opportunity, and this is where we get into that structure and engagement is to structure the content so that there's other relevant content at your fingertips. So that as soon as you're done whatever article or video or post that you've put in front of someone, the next suggested piece of content or the next call to action is just as relevant as what they came for. Now, that sounds really basic. We should all be able to do this. If Netflix can do it, why can't we do it? But the, the reality of what we often see is that people organize their content. And this is the bad examples that you asked me about. The bad examples are people organize their content in the way that it's created. And what I mean by that is often you'll go to a blog post and the next blog post is the next chronological piece, right? Now, similarly, if you're creating an ebook, it might be the next ebook. Now, there's two things that we don't want there. We don't necessarily want the next chronological piece. We want the next related piece. And if we're looking at an ebook or a white paper, we may not want a white paper next. We may want a video next. So being able to bring together what's relevant to our buyers is the new expectation. Now, when I say relevance, people are probably trying to figure out what do I mean there? Because relevance has been redefined quite a few times over the last number of years. And we're talking marketing here. No one is safe from marketing emails, right? So we can all relate to this in our inbox. Ten years ago, we used to be amazed. We'd be like, oh my goodness, how do they know my name? How does this big company manage to email me? This is so cool. That was ten years ago. Today we know how mail merge works. We know how marketing automation works. We know how these mass blasts work. And it is no different when we talk about a content experience, knowing my name and throwing my company's logo at the top doesn't do it, right? There's some great technology there to add some personalization on a page. But what we really need to be able to make relevant, as I said, is the content. Because I interviewed like you do CMOs all the time, I ask them a very simple question what content breaks through for you? Right? And the answer they don't necessarily give is the word relevance or personalization. They say things like, this company is showing me they can solve my problems. And there's a lot of different content out there, but we have to surface the right content that can solve the problems and not expect our buyer to go sift and search through various pieces of content. Now, we're talking a lot here about doctors, right? And we all know the doctors barely have enough time to see all their patients, let alone do they want to sit there and hear from Rep after Rep. But when you earn that opportunity to get in front of the doctor, what we also have to realize is if we've hooked them in some sort of way, they're going to go and do their own research. The data out there is that people in a buyer journey are doing over 82% of the research on their own, on their own time, without a rep in front of them, without a demo call, without a sales pitch. They do this after hours, especially in the case of doctors. They're not doing it nine to five per se. They may be doing it in the evening or early in the morning and that's where everything that we're talking about is even more important. For this type of buyer, we need to be able to set them up to be successful on their own so that they can find what they're looking for. As I started with without worrying that they're going to go down the dark funnel of Google and search terms.

Bozidar: That is great and there's lots to unpack there. And I have two separate questions. So one going back before we go into the content experience, you mentioned something I think it's really critical, which is related to the content itself, that content is relevant. And one of the big AHA moments was when I was reading your book was not to think chronologically. Oh my God. Now that sounds almost like I sounded dumb to myself, like even thinking chronologically. Because at the end of the day prospect is trying to your point to solve a problem, right? So if you think about it, if you think about it, they don't care where was the article or video or audio from April and to May they care about depending on when they are in that let's say it's a doctor, let's say where they are in that journey of discovering new product. Maybe they discover, oh, there's a new treatment for this. And this, I just heard it, someone mentioned it to the conference. That journey of discovering product, assessing it, looking at the clinical data studies and maybe talking to a rep at the end of the funnel. They don't need hundreds of pieces of content. That's what they don't want. You said it's super busy. They want a few relevant pieces of content and meet them where they are that can help them solve their problem. In this case, hey, I want to know more. Does this have side effects? What's the efficacy safety profile? Typically they're balancing that, things like that. So that content relevance is huge. The question for you does it mean that pharma companies and others don't need to focus from the start building, let's say, Content Hub on quantity of content, but rather focusing on specific type of content and then thinking of quality because they feel oftentimes they feel overwhelmed, like, oh, but I need 50 pieces of content to start with. So I wanted to ask you a very practical question on that.

Randy: Yeah, I think it's a great question. I think we're definitely seeing people I don't want to say slow down content creation, but realize that we don't need to be content engines all the time, that we don't have to sit there and be like a media outlet who's saying, what are going to be our three articles that we release this week right now? It's not that that's not important. New content is a big factor for people in terms of what's relevant in this moment as well as how search engines work. But what is more effective is mapping out that buyer journey that you just described. And that's something that I encourage everyone to do before they start even creating content. And let's use something as simple as a top of funnel, middle of funnel, and bottom of funnel model. Now, you may not use those types of terms in your organization tofu mofu bofu, maybe use something like you said earlier, awareness through to consideration and purchase. As we think about those, we want to start to Associate. What are the challenges on our buyers mind? What problems are they trying to solve for as we do that, that allows us to start to think strategically. Now, once we do that, we may realize that we only need a certain number of pieces of content. As you said, we don't need 100 pieces of content living out there. We need the right set of content to answer the problems at each stage. And when you start to identify and tackle that, you'll find first of all, you're going to create way less content, which is much more efficient, much less costly. But more importantly, you can start to actually go out and progress these buyers through those various states of the journey. And the last thing I want to hit on while we're just talking about this is one of the reasons I said earlier that a lot of us list content. The way we do is we post it in the way we create it. We created another blog post. It lives in our blog. We created a white paper. Let's put it under the white paper tab. The idea of a content hub is not necessarily that we just put it all on the content hub. That's just as problematic. The idea is that we use that to segment content and to do that. The other thing that's probably the least sexy thing I'll talk about today, but really important is tagging your content as you're creating content. What we want to do is we want to reference those stages of the buyer journey that we discussed and create and apply tags so that we understand what content is relevant. At a certain stage, or perhaps multiple stages. We may create an ebook or a white paper or a blog post that only works at the top of the funnel at the awareness stage, whereas we may have another one that works at the bottom of the funnel or at purchase. Having a distinction of that will allow you to start to think about how I surface the right assets at the right time.

Bozidar: Yeah, that's really great to hear. And pharma companies actually do spend a lot of money on market research before launching a product, massive amounts of money. And usually they have excellent information about the segments of doctors. What are the skeptics, what are the early adopters or this and that and what are those stages of journey, of adopting new products? So I think the information that can be used in a very meaningful way to organize content in the way you describe that has tags such as stage of the journey, format of the content as you describe in your book. There is enough information to do that, but it's mostly not done. So it's great to hear that. And relevant content, yes, quantity matters, but organize it in a way that can help someone on the other side solve a problem. To your point, I really like that point that you made because at the end of the day, people don't want more content. They want content that solves their problem. Now, that's for the content part, let's say high level. Now, you mentioned several things about the content experience, good versus bad. You mentioned several elements. You mentioned structure of the content. Then you mentioned personalization, you mentioned search. And also one of the things you said is, I come for one piece of content, but I stay for more. And we looked at the numbers last week, I think it was 88% of people who don't have a good first experience with a website or app, then leave and never come back. That's a massive, massive, massive number. And so if the experience is the opposite, which is, I come for one piece of content, I saw something looks relevant, I click, I go there, and then I stay for two minutes. But then I see all this stuff around. I have suddenly like this Binge worthy experience that Netflix is so good at. Oh, now I stay and an hour has passed and I've been watching the content from these guys here. And so what are some of those high level elements to think through from search to personalization? Or how do you design that Binging experience?

Randy: Sure. So, first of all, just to recap the way I think about everything you just described, I have a term for this, which the term, first of all, that I rally around a lot with go-to-market teams. Is that GTM acronym, right? The Go-to-Market, which is really about launching products, bringing your solutions to market to your customers. And I think at any stage of the journey, whether at the top or the bottom of this funnel that we're describing, we go through a continuous cycle. And that cycle is, first, identify the buyers that's step one. We do that with data. It could be data living in our CRM, our customer data platform, whatever lists we've been provided to go after as Sales Reps, we take that data and then we use a variety of different channels. The channels could be anything from an email blast to a Sales Rep outreach to an in-person visit. Right. These are all forms of channels that we have. Maybe one of the ones we see most often these days is digital ads as well, the ability to target and continue to go after the buyers. And what's interesting at those first two levels of this framework is that they are so focused on who are we going after? We obsess over leveraging that data not just to understand the right buyers, but also which channel should I use? But then, as you said, that last step, which is the content very often doesn't reflect those elements of who have I been targeting? I mean, all of us, you can think about we experience these retargeted ads in our consumer lives. Definitely, if you're in the B2B space, you're being retargeted by companies who say, I know who you are. I'm going to throw your name into the ad. It's going to look great, and I'm going to get you to click the ad. When I click the ad, as you ask, well, then what do we have to do? And my answer is, we just have to do everything we've been doing so far. We have to apply that at this level. So let's walk through some of the things that we can do to make it more personalized to me. There's three elements of personalization that should exist on any web page that we drop someone into. The first is you should when you can show that you know who they are. Right. And those are very vanity, high level degrees of personalization saying, I know your name because I've cookied you and I understand or I'm using intent to potentially suggest that I know your name and hopefully get it right, we can talk about that in more detail later. That's kind of level number one, right? That's no different. Using your Netflix analogy of me logging in and it's saying, hey, Randy, what do you want to watch today? Right. The second level is setting some context saying, I know who you are. And as a result, everything that I'm about to present to you is relevant to you because of this. And that's usually some copy that's done at the top of the page to help someone understand that everything that's going to flow below is going to be relevant to them. Just because you threw my name or my logo up at the top of the page does not mean that I should now trust you. It may get my attention, but if you can succinctly tell me why everything you've packaged below will be relevant to me, all these content assets, I may be interested. So that's where we can use some of our first party data or again, intent data, if we need to, to start to say, okay, I know that you're in this type of field in this area of the world, and you start to weave that into the copy of this short introduction, and now someone might be hooked. Now, a big way to do this is especially when you get deeper in the sales funnel when you're working through sales reps. And a big concept that's being used right now is sales reps who are creating these digital sales rooms. And these digital sales rooms are essentially mini content hubs, as we've described them, that allow us to do this. We can say, I know who you are. I've packaged this page. Here's a little bit of context of why I've packaged these things for you. But then the third element is really the key, and that is surfacing the right content. And that's where everything that we've talked about so far, the tagging of content, the ability to find it in index, allows us to surface 6, 8, 10, probably not much more than that. Pieces of content that are going to be relevant to that buyer to help them progress through their journey. And the combination of those three, to me, creates this bingeable relevant experience. If you just do one of those elements, it's not going to cut it. Like, honestly, even if I do the most valuable piece, which is the relevant content, how am I supposed to know that this is relevant? If you draw me on a page with ten pieces of content, doesn't have my logo on it, doesn't have the industry that I'm in, it doesn't have any context, why am I to think that this was handpicked for me, right? And at the same time, if I just say that I know you, but then I give you a whole bunch of generic content, well, then, do you really know me? So I think it's the combination of being able to say, I know who you are, I'm going to explain context why I can solve your problems, and then I'm going to show you that here's the content you can use on your own at your own time to go and brass.

Bozidar: That's very powerful. And I wish all of us, as consumers and apart from pharma and medical scientists, we have that experience with anything we're looking for, because we're constantly looking for something new. We constantly need something new. The new needs arise all the time and every day. Now, let's say that that already exists as you described. There is enough content to inform someone, get to a next stage, and it's relevant and it's presented well. And now they're binging content. I know that Google is doing these studies on how many touch points are needed, and it seems like it's growing every year. Three. There was five, seven. Now, it seems like it's nine. Is there anything just curious that you see across the board that talks about that and whether those touch points need to be a mix of online offline? What is the current state of that?

Randy: Yeah, well, let's talk about touch points because I think any of those metrics on their own are probably actually sadly underestimating what we're up against. And what I mean by that is as follows. The stat that I usually go off is one that talks about 11.2. I think it is pieces of content that are required. So you got 11.2 there. But then you also have the other reality of data that's come from CEB, which became Credit Gartner and then became the Challenger Inc. Group, which talked about the number of buyers that are weighing into those decisions. So it's no longer one buyer, often, who's making that ultimate call. You may have as many as another ten plus buyers sitting in there and weighing on your purchase decision, right? So think about even in the pharma space you may be selling into a doctor group, they're all going to have to have a voice in terms of what they may go with and what they may side with. So now you take that eleven times eleven, and your number of experiences starts to exponentially grow. Now, you may have varieties of different products and offerings and different considerations. So you start to realize that the more variables you place in, the more permutations that you're going to have of experiences that we need to create. And that's where we get to a point of saying, well, how many of these can we build ourself and how many of them do we have to find a way to do with technology to scale? Now, the beauty of both of those is I believe there's a role for both. We're always going to have a certain stage of the journey that we want to put a lot of art into, right? That's that marketing magic where someone's leaning in and really prescribing and thinking of what we're going to assemble at this stage. But the beauty, as I also said, is at the other end of that spectrum where we start to leverage technology and we start to leverage things like AI, we can use elements. And I hit on this earlier, the idea of intent data. So understanding your intent when you come to these sites that I've built actually allow me to throw your name in there, to throw your industry in there to assemble the right content, using those tags and matching that to intent data. Now I'm getting really into the weeds of the technology and how this is pulled together. And there's a lot of what we built at Uberflip over the years because what we realized is the mindset around a more account based approach, which in general, even in pharma, just applies to a more targeted approach to the doctors. And groups that we want to go and sell into. In that case, we're often broadening the definition of account-based marketing. Account-based marketing used to be, I'm going after ten accounts, these are my ten accounts, and I'm going to go and put a ton of art into those ten. But now those lists have grown because it was so effective there that we want to take ideas from that and put it into more of a one to few or one to many type of approach of marketing. And that's where we can't still put that art degree, but we can bring in some of that science to bring in some of that automation and scale.

Bozidar: That's great. No thanks for that. And does that require user to be registered? Because one of the reasons why Netflix can really personalize content very well Spotify, YouTube is when we are registered. I know you guys, I saw also in the book and on your website that you tested a lot of different ways and you find what works better and increases the conversion rate for that. And I know the personalization is possible to a certain extent, I assume, through gathering all this intent data. Yet the full personalization, for all the top examples we're using, people are logged in. So how does that work? That's the question that I often hear from pharma marketeers.

Randy: Yeah. So let's simplify this to terminology I used earlier. Top of funnel, middle of funnel, bottom of funnel. Okay, so top of funnel, we may not know who this person is, to your point, different than Netflix, but in the world of marketing, that is where someone is not in our database in any way, in any material way. So in that case, we can use things like intent data. Intent data help us understand based on where you're coming from, what you've done on the web, what you may be interested in and who you might be. And that allows us, as I said, to kind of take guess. Now the challenge with intent data is it's only so accurate. So we want to always make sure that when we don't have confidence in that data, we have strong fallbacks that we can take someone to. That would be more of a typical top of funnel nurture, very broad type of messaging. When we move from top of funnel, though, into middle of funnel, in theory, someone has put their hand up and they've said, I'm okay with being in your database. I have some sort of degree of interest. I may have signed up at an event. I may have registered for updates with you in some sort of way. And at that point, we have a lot of information about that buyer. And at that point, we can start to use that to create an experience that's much more relevant to them. Now, still in that situation, if we're going after thousands of different accounts or even hundreds, there's a degree of automation and scale that we need to be able to leverage. And that is where tagging our content to be able to pull the right assets is really important. Now, when we get to the bottom of the funnel, this is where more than ever, you could argue this is also the case of middle of funnel, but bottom of the funnel more than ever. This is where we are teaming up with our sales teams and we need to continue to work side by side with them. At that point. They have a relationship. They've done a little bit more research about the person they're speaking to. And now we can actually start to not move away from technology, but move away from these big guesses, these assumptions, these bulking of you into some sort of a group to say I'm going to use a template, but I'm going to edit that template to be highly relevant to the person I spoke to. That could be certain things that happened in the last conversation, a piece of research. They may be looking for something that, you know, that was causing them to stumble to endorse. This product that's coming to market, when you can start to package that for that buyer. Now you're at this last stage of personalization that is truly more of a relationship.

Bozidar: Yeah. In the world of pharma, there is given that there is a finite number of customers, right. When pharma releases contact to doctors, the goal is never to have 10 million people watch something. Right. There is 23,000 cardiologists in the whole United States, 10,000 oncologists. Right. And so there is a way to actually have a lot of that data. So I would assume actually even more than other industries in terms of intent, in terms of what they prescribe, in terms of being able to target at an individual level. So putting everything you share right now together with even very rich data set that exists sometimes it's even scary when you look at it, what exists out there. Definitely there is a possibility to personalize even better in the industry, I would say, comparing to other industries. One question that also we sometimes get is oh, we have CMS. Like every pharma company has a CMS, whether it's Adobe or Salesforce or Contently or things like that. Why they can't do it with CMS. Now, I get that question sometimes and then I ask to be shown what they were able to accomplish with the CMS. And then what I see is usually not what we are discussing today. So how would you answer that question?

Randy: Yeah, sure. So, first off, I think every marketing organization, every company needs a CMS. I don't think the introduction of content experience platforms have replaced them. I think this is a, you know, for those who have read Clyton Christensen's Innovator’s Dilemma, I mean, this is a typical innovator's dilemma that we're at with the CMS. It was built for IT teams. It's built for coding, it's built for scale in a different way that we need, but it's not built for day-to-day execution and relevance in that moment. And some of the stakeholders who have access to your CMS are very different than the stakeholders that we're talking about in this back and forth. We're talking about marketing individuals, we're talking about digital teams. And we're even talking a lot of this conversation about sales reps. Which of those people have ever been given the keys to your CMS? So the first thing is understanding who these solutions are built for. The other element is making sure that these two solutions work nicely together, though, because there's got to be trust by the buyer that they are on a consistent experience, whether they're on your CMS or they're on some of the other digital properties that you may be running. So picking a content experience platform that can actually host content, I believe is really important. That was a big part when we started Uberflip, making sure that we could host that content that it wasn't being iFramed in or some sort of experience that you didn't have control over. And especially in highly regulated industries, that's really important because one of the reasons we trust CMS is because we ensure that it's something that's gone through the right governance. So you need something that can have that same degree of checks and balances that this is content that the organization has approved to be pulsing through. And that way, as we get deeper into some of those users that we talked about, say, sales, they're not grabbing assets off Google to send out to their buyers that may not meet the criteria that are required to put this in front of buyers. And then the last thing I think is you're seeing with these content experience platforms that they're integrating with more of the intent and marketing automation platforms than we've seen historically with a CMS. And that's really important because a lot of what we talked about today was how do we use an understanding of the buyer to actually, on the fly, adjust the experience that's served up. And that's very different than what a CMS is built for today.

Bozidar: Yeah, and it's interesting. I do mention what was the genesis of CMS, because that really affects how CMS function, because that is weaved into the architecture, like thinking of how CMS work in the first place and working with CMS rather than working against CMS. This is more like, okay, how can we put the two together, four different jobs to be done, using the terminology of a little bit of Christensen in order to have the final result, final the outcome. And then I know you have a framework, a five step framework. For me, when I was reading a book, it was, okay, you have the content. Now what? Well, now you apply the framework. And I thought that that was super useful. If you can just high level share, feel like that could be a separate episode, I know we won't be able to cover it today. Just what are the five steps? And maybe we can have another episode to unpack a little bit for people who have content. And now what?

Randy: Yeah, absolutely. It's kind of nice talking about this at the end of our conversation today. This is something that I developed over a number of years, talking to a lot of our customers at Uberflip and became a big part of the book that you referenced, which we've kind of skirted around the book, which is fuck content marketing. Focus on content experience. If you can get past the title, I promise it's got great content. And that idea is not that content marketing is not important.

Bozidar: Just to clarify, I moved to New York eight years ago, so I passed by title very easily.

Randy: You used to it, right? But it's not that content marketing is not important. It's to your point, once you've created content, if you're not going to focus on the experience, there's actually no point in creating all that content. So much of that content gets unused. Actually, over 80% of content created never makes it off your website into the sales cycle. So what we need to do is we need to have a framework for how we organize this content. And that starts with the first step is centralization. Centralization is how do we pull all these forms of content together. And what I mean by all forms, we talked about this earlier. Having ebooks and videos and white papers on different pages is not the way your buyer wants to put up their hand to search. They don't sit there and say, let me go to this company's website and look at their white papers. No, they say, I have a problem. So the first thing we need to do is centralize. And that takes us to the second step of organization. And we talked a lot today about organization. Organization is where we start to apply a lot of the tagging methodologies on top of our content to match to both what people are searching for from an SEO perspective, as well as even internal stakeholders, what they're searching for which is not SEO. That's internal ways for them to find the assets that are going to work at different stages of that journey. Once you've done those first two pieces, you get to start having a lot more fun in marketing. That's my view. And that's where we get into the idea of personalization. Personalization is where we start to build these experiences. And we leverage a lot of what we've done in those first two steps to actually pull the right content together. Once we've done that, and we're skimming over that really quickly, we get to the fourth step. The fourth step is where we distribute content. And this is where if we have a content experience platform, we can take a single link, right, a single URL, and drop it into any distribution channel we may have, whether that's email, an ad, sales outreach, whatever it might be, when we can click put one link versus here's, ten links that you've got to click on to understand what we do. It's a much simpler flow that we can create. And that takes us to the last step of actually analyzing those results, understanding what is working and where that comes into play is it's not necessarily just a loop back to centralizing content, it's actually a loop back to your content creation efforts. Because once I start to understand what's working as well as where are there gaps in my journey? Now, as we started our conversation today, we move away from just creating content like a machine to creating content that's very purpose built for different stages in the journey that we've built.

Bozidar: That's great. And we started to apply for some of the things that we do. Also the framework started to discuss my co-founder. I think it's powerful. And then you said it's the result of a lot of thinking on how to think about the content. I particularly love the groups of tags, how you organize it. That works for most of the companies. Of course, there are some adjustments. Like, here are the four types of tags and here are the other two. And then when you have thousands of content pieces, oh, that's how I can organize. Cut. That's really powerful. Took a screenshot of that. I printed it out with the super five steps centralized, organized, personalized, distribute, generate results. I think there's going to be another full episode on that to unpack. But I'd like to do in the last couple of minutes, we do quick questions and quick answers for people to get to know you. So I have just very few rapid fire questions and answers. So what's your favorite industry buzzword of 2023?

Randy: I'd say it's go-to-market. I think that's a great way to unite sales, marketing, and success altogether.

Bozidar: Oh, yeah, I see it in sauce. That's becoming also the big word. What's the best book you read in the last year or two that stands out for you?

Randy: I like taking inspiration from books to tell a great story and have a business underlying. I loved Shoe Dog and I loved that, what's The Disney one? Ride of a Lifetime. Two great books.

Bozidar: Oh, I haven't checked that one. Shoe Dog. Yeah, definitely. It's a classic. And anyone entering the world of content in 2023 just out of college, what's the one sentence advice, one word advice you would give to them?

Randy: I would say talk to your sellers, find out what the problems are that buyers actually have because they have a direct line to those people every day.

Bozidar: Got it. And who in the world of content marketing would you take out for lunch would you like to take out for lunch?

Randy: That's a great question. I've been fortunate to sync with so many great content people. One of the people who's been a great mentor for me, early days, Jay Baer, become a good friend along the way. So I would do it just because Jay and I get along and he's got some great thoughts in terms of how to really listen to customers in terms of the content you put out there.

Bozidar: Excellent. And the last question, where can people find you and your company online?

Randy: Yeah, sure. You can go to uberflip.com. That's great spot to learn a little bit more about content experience and ways that you can actually build a lot of things that we were talking about today. In terms of me, I'm pretty active, I'd say, on LinkedIn. I got my own podcast, too, so you can check that out when you're done listening to all the episodes of Pharma Launch Secrets. That one's called The Marketer’s Journey.

Bozidar: All right. It's been a real pleasure having you today. And then thank you for everything. I learned that the listeners will learn when thinking about the content, because that will be one of the big topics over the next years in the world of Pharma. It's been an absolute pleasure. Thank you. 

Randy: Thanks for having me.

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