Reuters Panel on HCP Customer Engagement: How to Use Content to Drive HCP Trust

Episode Transcript

Host: I will hand it over now to our moderator, Bozidar Jovicevic who is the CEO of Evermed, and I hope I got his last name right. [laughs]

Bozidar Jovicevic: Yes, that's always a challenge so it was close. [laughs] Just Bozi is fine. Thanks for coming. I know it's the last part of the day so I assume you guys are interested in content because that's what's going to be the topic. How is everyone doing by the way? Good? Yes. Here, when you ask how are you doing people say not too bad, and sometimes I say, is that good?

[laughter]

Bozidar: It's double negation. All right. We have a very diverse panel today from global roles, European roles, digital roles, medical roles. I encourage you to ask a lot of questions. My name is Bozidar. I've been pharma for 17 years, mostly at Novartis and Sanofi. I'm co-founder of Evermed. Our booth is the first one here so come visit us.

Today, we'll be talking about content and impact on behavior change and attitude change and many other things. Again, please feel free, towards the end, you'll have time for questions so you can raise your hand. I assume that the app is also working, so we can use that as well, all right, or small rooms, you can ask questions. All photos are there. They seem to be [chuckles] correct.

I'll start with, we have Julia here, Karen, Christina, and Palik. Thank you guys for joining. I will ask each one of them to introduce themselves and we'll start to kick off with a question and then we'll take it from there. Good. All right. I'll start with Karen. Karen, you you work with CSL. You said that that's $10 to $12 billion, a small biotech that no one's heard of. [laughs] If you can tell us a little bit about your role, what you do, and then kick us off with really what are the key success elements for content in 2022?

Karen Pinachyan: Thanks, Bozi. Good afternoon, everyone. Great to be here. I'm heading medical affairs at CSL Behring. You had the first Pfizer, I tried with my boss, actually head of Europe. He left already, so I can speak freely, so that's the good news. I joined CSL around three years ago which feels like previous century because it was two months before COVID.

One of the feelings I have now that a lot of things about content and about the way of engaging customers dramatically changed since then, but nothing went different direction. Actually, it's always the same direction that's getting accelerated. I'm heading next surgeon by training. Sometimes I have surgical opinions to go and cut something rather than wait until things are getting infected and and people die from.

From content perspective, I think what we were discussing earlier with Bozi also, what is the best type of content people we can think about? I have my own way of phrasing this into four parts, which first two is more mandatory ones. Like second, two more optional ones is content I need actually as a physician or the physician before joining industry.

Content I need is maybe there is an urgent problem or maybe I need something to treat my patients, or maybe I need something which is satisfying my scientific curiosity. The content I really trust to trust perspective, and here we are coming into this difficult part of should content come from independent sources or from pharma or from other type of organizations, the trust. Sometimes it's not easy to build the trust historically, link also with the tone of voice and also how promotional non-promotional type of content.

The content I like and different people prefer, I prefer personally video content, but I was driving recently few days ago in a congress in Brussels and I realized that actually I would prefer to have a podcast because after I started to look into the video transmission there, I saved myself from a car accident. Maybe better not to have a video in there.

Maybe the final part for me is the content which is easily accessible, and I enjoy interacting with because I have a number of websites, but as physician, as a pharma person, where you have to log in 25 times, I have a content management system actually, which is, I think much more protected than my bank account. I don't know who will be hacking that part, but every time I forgot the password and recreate it again. This easy access and seamless access to part will be very important from the content perspective.

Bozidar: Thanks for that. I think you mentioned you started with trust and talk about video and audio and formats. I know we got asked often a question like, would doctors trust content coming from pharma? It's always a big question and I actually read somewhere that that level of trust is about 35% and trust medical society's content is about 80%, and third-party medical education, 70%.

Trust is a worthy effort to build and grow over time, and some of the most trusted brands or some of the biggest brands that we know like Amazon, I read somewhere that some people trust Amazon more than they trust their spouses, so it's like it worked really well for Jeff Bezos in Amazon. Then mentioned video and audio and delivery and formats.

Julia, maybe we switch to you for a moment. If you can share with us a little bit about your role. I think it's really interesting what Novartis is setting up. You can share whatever you can share, [chuckles] please feel free. Then with that in mind and your setup within Novartis, how do you think about the next future of content and the next three years role of pharma and content?

Julie Richards: It's a lot of questions in one question so I'll try--

Bozidar: Introduction first.

Julie: [laughs] Introduction first. My name's Julie Richards. I head up creative and digital which is part of an organization called Connects in Novartis. Essentially, Connects works like a shared services organization, but more for consulting or those more complex kind of services. Creative and digital sits within that. We would be an alternative to using a publicist or a [unintelligible 00:06:55] or something like that, we're the internal creative agencies.

It is a unique, I suppose, positioning we're opt in. They don't have to use it, we're not mandated so we would pitch for work and all that stuff like an external party does, but we're large. We support all of the key markets and we're about 300 people now that support the organization from everything from brand and content strategy all the way through to omnichannel services and distribution through channels and stuff, so a full gamut all the way across I suppose to content supply chain.

I say we're unique enough, but actually this is a growing trend that's happening within pharma, but also way outside of pharma. It's just how big or how much you want to push us. Back to your other question in terms of what's happening from a content perspective over the next three years.

I think we're in a critical time of change at the moment which is obviously driven by things like COVID and the fact that everybody-- before COVID Novartis had a very digital first agenda where we were trying to make sure we had the right platforms and tools so that we really could drive digital content, but when COVID hit, obviously that accelerated all of the efforts and forced people to think a bit differently.

I think what a lot of us did in Novartis and across the industry is we just took all of our content that we had and we made it digital and then we sent it out. You ended up in this scenario where people were being bombarded with what was essentially generic marketing materials. I think we're feeling the pushback from HCPs on patients and stuff like that on now.

If you're asking me where things will go, I think there's a couple of things we need to look out for. I think, firstly, the role of the marketer is changing. It's becoming much more specialized and that is allowing to keep the IP internally, but also being able to really challenge and aggregate the data and drive the insight with less reliance on partners to help us do that.

I think from a content production or how we make content perspective, I think there's going to be a move away from those kind of global, very large scale content factories where it was all about churning out a high volume of content. The focus is moving much more towards that kind of dynamic content optimization content on demand and really leveraging social networking and stuff like that and social networks in order to be able to get that content out there and resonate with the HCP.

It's really about getting towards that HCP to HCP or that patient to patient content and really generating that, moving from that push, push, push to more of that pull. A couple of examples of how we're moving in that direction, you know this very well because you were part of the design of it. Evermed did support us in developing out an on-demand content platform or content hub, which we call PEAK. It's personalized education and knowledge platform, which is targeted mainly at rheumatologists. Really what this is an on-demand platform, as I said, that has multiple pieces of short form content.

Exactly where you were talking about, Karen. It's the video, the podcasts, the mini documentary series, everything's less than 15 minutes. What we've done is that we've made this content with the rheumatologist. It's been very much co-created. The intention is that that means the content is the content that they want or they need, or that they will find valuable.

Now we only launched it a couple of months ago, so we'll see how it goes. It's a three-year pilot, but the hope is that that will allow us to get a better understanding of how rheumatologists engage with content, what they want out of it, how they're going to get value out of that. That's an exciting thing that's just launched. Then otherwise we're using tools.

We're using things like flash talking so that we can make our banner advertisements a bit more market-- a bit more automated. The beauty of things like that is that it means you can do it at speed and you can do it at volume, but at the same time, you are able to update very quickly. It's that kind of speed on and being able to react to the data. I suppose it's a step into that dynamic content optimization that we're looking to move towards.

Bozidar: Well, thanks for that. You mentioned, a lot of pharma companies when COVID hit, they were like, okay, we just digitized everything we're doing in person. It doesn't work because of, they say, people say content is king. There is not a thing called context. For example, we mentioned once, like conferences, I think Karen mentioned is that some conferences try to just copy paste what's done over the four days when you're in person somewhere means you don't have patients, you don't have family members. You're there for four days to network and learn.

Now you cannot copy paste that experience and expect someone to be in the room watching for four days of content, so need to take that context and all the patients they're seeing and everything else, and then see, okay, how would the digital content work for this context? It's just such a huge thing. Now, I think after that shock phase and scramble phase, we are now getting into optimizing was the right content and everything.

PEAK platform was in FiercePharma. I know it of course, very well. We were the partners for the technology delivery. I think that was encouraging to see focused on HCPs and what the HCPs want. They want short form. They don't want to sit for 60 to 90 minutes maybe to watch a webinar. They want personalization. They want more video and audio. If you start to think that way, oh, that's how all of us are. All of us want short form, all of us want video because of the higher retention, easier to learn and all that.

With that, I remember, Alec, we had a conversation and you're saying how, if content was a product that lifecycle should be two days, not six months. The question is in this new world where there will be way more content being produced, where the HCPs journey of discovering new treatments starts with content doesn't start with the Rep and MSL. In most cases, it starts with content like everything else. The question is what are some of the most common pains you experienced and you share some of the stories and then how do you think that we can accelerate that life cycle? That's a million-dollar question.

Alec: For sure. In my role at Ferring, basically I had the chance to work from sales, medical marketing, and also global function. What strike me is indeed, when we talked about many things, and I agree with my colleagues here, that indeed it's a multidimensional problem. It's the format, the rich media part is creating better engagement. We know it because our HCPs are also human beings, consuming Netflix and many things.

It just, we can't bring boring to Howard's video to a format where now you have their kids consuming TikTok on the 1 minute 30. That's a one place. Context is another piece because we came from a world where we've seen A to B campaigns to conversations, which means our story needs to be relevant faster to the point to create that engagement and a story and a conversation that start on one channel and then another channel, it's a different beast.

That stress coming from multichannel and omnichannel created a problem in my organization where the bottleneck was content creation and not everyone was suited for content creation. One team that did well was medical. They had a lot of things to say. They knew the therapeutic area. They had the scientific juice that attracted our HCPs. Suddenly, if the sales rep is a Formula One driver in the omnichannel car, and the fuel is brought by medical, where is marketing? Marketing could not just sit doing the nice banner on the email.

They had to do more. I think that is where we saw the bottleneck. They were not used to create that content machine at scale. While medical could talk all day long on creating tons of content, they just had to transform that content, as you said in the shiny piece. That was okay, the juice was there. This was interesting to work with in an HCP association, but when you come to promotional material, that was a different story. We took six to nine months usually to create an interesting piece. Then when we test it, right?

Bozidar: It is old by time frame.

Alec: That was, for me, in my experience, we really struggled to create that dynamism with the marketing teams, the brand teams. We ended up during COVID to be fair. It's not a critique to my marketing colleagues. It's just that we ended up from a digital perspective, working a lot with the medical teams.

We basically started to rely on the channel to make it nice. Marketing was looking at the data afterwards. They became an insights house to try to do the next best action after the sales rep call and so on. Then there was a missed opportunity to really say, what is a story or behavior we want to impact and change through that video or through that we missed it. It's okay to say we missed it. We can always be better at that.

Bozidar: That's okay, to acknowledge where things we can do better, but that's not what people commonly think when they think medical marketing, because they think that marketing people move faster. They also move from one job to another much faster. Then in medical, little more stability is different. It's interesting to bring that perspective and an experience that was different, where medical was a driver and provided that scientific use. Then they had the direct link to sales, I assume, with proper firewalls and everything which every pharma has to do.

Alec: That's interesting when you said medical marketing, not every company has that medical marketing concept, where basically the package is marketing led and the content is medical, and whatever comes out of the door is promotional anyway. In my organization, we had two different silo. Medical was having a story that was quite juicy for the HCPs and marketing the story that was more promotional.

Those two world competed in my organization, which made us choose for COVID purposes where to go. We went where there was more content and with medical and where there was more demand which was medical. This created a stress point in the organization in saying, what is the purpose and role of the brand teams then if the content is-- which is a good discussion to have. What is the added value of marketing in the world where medical global medical affairs teams will basically drive that content generation.

Bozidar: That's an really interesting question to ask because I was in medical affairs conference last week and one of the things is that medical affairs has always been like, do we belong to the clinical development? Do we belong to commercial? Whose baby are we here? It's always like that.

Now there are more and more chief medical officers, and they have their own function.

It has a growing importance, I would say, because there is more and more emphasis on push and pull, not only push in product messaging, but there is a more emphasis on scientific peer-to-peer exchange because we mentioned trust. If I have peer listening from a peer and that's enabled by pharma, so I will watch that because it's peer-to-peer exchange that starts with science and maybe disease-related content, and then continues with product-related content.

Help me as a physician learn what's new because, yes, I'm overwhelmed and busy, but I still need to know what's new. If I'm a cardiologist, I need to know what's new in cardiology, like short form or informative work nowadays. Then I'm open to listen about the product. That's where I think really through a set, I think that medical will play a significantly stronger role.

Then the channels are more dictated by doctors and then their preferences. The end of the day, it's what they need that we will try to adjust to. Christina, you work with Bayer in a global medical role and you're focused on oncology. If you could share a little bit how is the world of oncologist different in terms of channels, in terms of preferences, then maybe some of the points earlier made. What do they want for channels? Do they want--

Christina: Yes, absolutely. I work in the global medical affairs team at Bayer oncology as a digital lead. I think when we think about content, the first thing that we need to focus on is what do our stakeholders-- and I will include patients, not just the medical doctors and our thought leaders. What are their behavior? Where do they go to access the content? When we think about that, especially in oncology, we did some research, and there are a lot of reports out there that so of course, face-to-face is one means.

Right after the face-to-face interactions, applications, emails are equal to social media channels to access content. Then you think about the channels and then, based on the channels, what type of content can you share? When we talk about applications like endemic apps where doctors go to and discuss case studies, again, it's very relevant to think about content that can be easily accessible and very short not very long. As you mentioned, think about the behavior that every person has, accessing Netflix and wanting to have more easily consumed content.

Then when we talk about social media thing, oncologists, they're really good at using Twitter, especially during congresses, the biggest conferences like ASCO and ESMO. You see that you have huge, huge discussions on data that are being presented. Actually, just yesterday, we had the digital patient on board, and we asked the patients, where does the patient community go to access the scientific content during those big events? They said, "Yes, of course, we summarize all the presentations during ASCO, and we share a brief tweet summarizing all the presentations on Twitter."

You see that it's very focused on where do our stakeholders go to access the information? I guess we can discuss later, I think another point of view is the metrics and the KPIs and how can measuring your campaign can direct the content and your second campaign and improvising, basically, and trying different things.

Bozidar: We'll definitely come back to the topic of impacting KPIs. I think that's always the question when you mention the word impact and there are 20 people in the room, there are 20 different opinions, what that means, so maybe we will cover that here. It's interesting that you mentioned the channels. Karen, I know we had a conversation about different channels. I know, for example, in your line of work, rare diseases, gene therapy, it's very different than launching a product in cardiovascular.

You deal with very specialized situation with a small number of stakeholders, a small number of patients, a small number of specialists. How is reaching them through content different than more a specialty like a cardiologist? Also in terms of channels, I know we had a discussion also about Twitter versus one-minute video versus three to five-minute video versus summary from a conference, so how does that work in that world?

Karen: I think the rare diseases area and highly specialized care has specific challenges to that, but I think they are more and more common actually than we could think about this because I feel like we are going into a combination of several smaller disease areas and probably Humira area when 70 billion product, another one is from [unintelligible 00:23:54], they probably are over. It could be still some products coming to that level, but it's smaller groups of big highly specialized products.

We have therapeutic areas where they are 10 people in a big country, in a big European country or maybe, if we think about channels, there is in one diseases areas I work, there is one physician who is known, TikTok star actually through his daughter, who is a young star. There is one person actually in the world in their type of area. If you do content on TikTok with targeting this area, there's one person only who can do that.

Then I think challenges I see personally is one is what are your metrics? It's not anything you could think about. It's not valid anymore because any number of engagement, there are I think 28 physicians treating, completing disorders in UK, basically. If you do a content, which is specialized to NHS and within a given healthcare system, well, you can get all of them in one room, so why you need a content for them.

From that perspective, I think the hidden agenda I always had, they had the content production. It's part of your engagement also, and it's not only just doing a content or delivering to everyone, but also by the fact that collaborating and co-creating content, first, you are avoiding this very famous known disease, which is called [unintelligible 00:25:20]. The second part is there actually, you are creating a long-term relationship during this content creation process, where together with the trust also coming there, and also with the fact that the perception is coming, that this is content which is not only necessarily always produced for pharma.

I think one of questions here now on screen is how we build a trust actually towards content coming from pharma. I think this is the solution for me, is the co-creation part, is it may be people do trust, especially in rare diseases field. I think it's maybe a little bit different in other areas. They do trust pharma content because, historically, in many rare diseases, pharma was really driving disease awareness in rare disease. But without pharma, nothing would happen in number of rare diseases.

There is a trust. We just need to be careful and not be careless with this trust and nurture the trust and keep it, I know it's a dirty word for this type of [unintelligible 00:26:17], as non-promotional as possible. By non-promotional, I mean customer focus and adding value to customers rather than only adding value to the company.

Bozidar: Among other things, topic of trust will be everywhere because it's the core of how we do business. It's the core of how interact. It's the foundation of everything, and it's not binary. It's usually not like, I trust or I don't trust. It's usually somewhere in the middle, and that's why you use percentages. It's really worth the effort. I think co-creation of that and really being that scientific partner to community showing, "Hey, I really care. I'm committed to this disease and, yes, we have a product and, yes, we have a pipeline. We want to be able to add value to you, doctor, and then get permission to talk about it." I feel like the whole world is going in that direction.

I always use example of buying a TV, so maybe 20 years ago we would, "I want to buy a new TV," so then I'm going to talk to a person from a TV company, or Samsung or Sony. I don't know. But now, who does that? Is there anyone here who does it? Not really. We go online, educate ourselves on different types of TV, gain trust through consuming content, find things to think about when buying a TV X. If Samsung is behind an article, okay, so maybe they're gaining my trust through educating me on how to make the decision.

That's really the world we now live in, and then the content is driving like 70% to 80%. That's what starts from most industries of that interaction. It will be a huge change. I think actually the first question, Julia, given what Novartis is doing right now with internal team, how do we go from generic content delivered personally to personalized content? The word personalization is probably the hardest word this whole year. Personalization, that's where AI recommender and all that comes in. How are you guys thinking about it, and what's the role of data in producing content?

Julia: It goes back to what I was saying earlier on about, I see the generation of content moving away from this whole-scale factory build, which is that spray and prey that will just throw stuff out there into being a bit more deliberate and moving into that kind of dynamic content optimization and stuff like that. That really is a day to play. That's about having that your content teams are not just purely your content writer and you're creative. It actually brings in-- your marketeer as part of that. Your analyst is part of that, so it becomes this kind of hub of the right kind of people looking at the content all the time.

This idea that a piece of content habit has a lifespan, it doesn't really. It only has a lifespan until you get more data that gives you a better direction as to how you change or develop that piece of content. If you're looking at where we're going in that space or what we need to do in that space, I think it's getting much more eclectic teams together to look at content in a much more holistic way. That's what we can do in terms of how we structure ourselves internally.

I think the biggest thing is really looking at that kind of on demand. It's that user-generated content. When we're playing back to the trust thing as well, I think your example was great about TVs. I know, for me, I ask my friends. I might validate what my friends said online, but essentially, I start with my friends. I think what we've got to do is enable or facilitate the HTPs and the patient advocacy organizations to be able to do the talking to generate that content.

We can really support them and enable them to be able to do that really well. I think that's something as an organization we need to look at. Then the other piece is building in that behavioral science into everything that we do. I think that's something that certainly, when I look at how pharma is managing and looking at content, it's getting a nod to behavioral science. We maybe haven't really put our arms around it properly yet. I'd like to see us doing that a little bit more because that would really help us make sure that the content we are creating is not content for content's sake. It's actually every piece has a value and it has a real reason for being in the ether.

Bozidar: It's like a flywheel, right? It's a profession because, once you get the first pieces of content and people start to engage with to get there, which is success, then the data starts to inform through production of content. The same way the Netflix many years ago when a House of Cards came out and then they said, well-- they looked at the data and there was Director X with a topic, why the White House with this and that would actually lead to a successful show. This is like, okay, this is now different content creation.

Also, you mentioned the lifespan of the content. I think we, as Evermed tested like, for example, conference content, and we discovered there are a lot of these in myths like around trust or around co-creation or around lifespan. For example, a lot of people say, "Well, conference is over after two weeks, no one cares about that. It's already old." We found that actually for six months, it's still fresh and people don't have time to consume everything in two days.

Julia: Right. Depending on the topic, people are coming back to that content two years later if it's still relevant topic. You know what I mean?

Bozidar: Your data shows that, right?

Julia: Yes, exactly. That's the whole point. It's making sure that you're developing content that you can track the data on and that starts with the right intent. You do those two things together, and you'll be much more successful with content you put out there.

Bozidar: It's going to be really interesting I think in the pharma going into more content because, a lot of other industries went to that huge change where they need to engage in the front end of the experience with content. Another thing that I often hear is like, "Oh, you're regulated. Interesting." I'm like, "Finance is also regulated. There are many other regulated industries." Even industries that are less regulated, I'm sure that when something goes up from Apple that there is 15 people reading it before it comes out.

You just think over years we developed this, so we regulate. I definitely want to come back to the question of impact, Christina, because there was a question like, okay, we create content, why do we create it? I think at least for perspective on medical, it would be good to hear how you guys think of the impact of content. Any specific actions that people take with the content or you consume it? Is it attitude change or behavior change or how do you think about it?

Christina: Yes, absolutely. I think we need to start that medical is not really great in measuring the impact yet. We have some work to do on that. Of course, we start with the basics that we need to measure and really focus on KPIs and really work on the KPIs to inform the second campaign and the one after that. I really love the presentation Chama did on the second room. He said that, okay, if you have the click-through rates of an email and you see that it's very low, focus on sending that email only to the people that they opened it and improvised and enhanced the content.

Of course, you can play around and you can do many things when you send emails. I'm touching on emails because most medical teams do that, and it's practiced across medical teams. You start by sending a link and then you think, okay, how can I enhance the content of my email? How can I put a video or how can I include a link out to the website to keep basically the stakeholder, keep the doctor on our platform and direct him or her to our website to access more content there? I think this is where the impact comes in place and measuring really and even reiterating on the KPIs that we need to measure.

Bozidar: Thanks. Alec, I know you have also an opinion on this. The impact of content, we heard about medical perspective. How do you think that connects with what commercial does, what can be measured, what cannot be measured? Also, do you think that there is-- I'll ask actually a second question. I wanted to ask about external versus the internal, how much should we bring in, but let's first start with the--

Alec: From an impact perspective, I think the ultimate goal that we can share across tiers, across company is behavior change. We want to impact a certain behavior with what we do. This is a shared goal between medical and marketing. Outside of the door, we are doing this to create value to impact a human being behavior from anywhere to where-- from aware to intent to prescribe. I'm talking business. At the end of the day, we are not a charity type of business. We want to make sure that the value we transfer scientifically has proven as a behavior change in the clinical practitioner we have in front.

That means we have to anticipate the creation of those content either with high quality and high preparation, and we are very much regulated so it takes time to have that wow effect. We know about modification videos. They take crazy amount of time and money to do, or you can play with, this is what we've done. We've done an authentic play. We asked our sales rep, he said you guys anyway, you have no chance to bombard the doctors during COVID because they were saving life potentially. We said, do asynchronous video like you were talking to your grandmother.

Just send them a reminder that you exist, that you are here to listen to them. They started to take their phone like, if they were talking on the Sunday to their grandmother and say, "Hey, doctor, you know what? I'm here to help. If I can help you with services to triage your patients or if you need anything to filter the scientific publication, we have an army of people that can do that for you. Let us help you. Let us be a business partner to your clinical practice."

I think then they started to do that. Some of our sales rep started to say, "Yes, I'm going to take a one-minute video and asynchronously create that engagement, and it did to answer one of the questions on the board. We had actually doctor answering saying, "Thanks for sharing this. I'll look after when I put my kids to sleep." It's asynchronous, so with context. We kept the line of communication in a non-disruptive way, and I think if you are bombarding-- even if this is good content, but if this is not authentic, then it feels a little bit yes, okay, it's a mothership talking to me. Nice but--

Bozidar: Big brother. [chuckles]

Alec: Yes. If this is a human being that they've seen-- and it's important, they've seen that human being before. It's just they have been disconnected. Then the reaction will be quite okay. Authenticity I think is a good way to create that conversation. I'm coming back to that world because the channel has changed but we are talking about stories and conversations.

Bozidar: Yes, exactly. Especially in the world we're living in, I think 2022 where the access to information, everything is becoming more transparent. When you say something, it can be like broadcasted all around the world. People can do fact checks which they've been doing for many years now. I think it has a powerful value, and it comes back again to trust because the more authentic you are, the more trustworthy you are. The more trustworthy you are, people want to do business with you or want to use your products. It's just how it is.

Now we have a couple more minutes, so I want to make sure we cover a few questions. If we can do like maybe at least one minute answer, if I ask you. What's the biggest challenge of getting HTPs involved in content creation and content feedback? Who wants to take that one?

Christina: Maybe I can start because I think we definitely want to co-create content. From a medical point of view, especially when we're talking about co-creation of content on social media, many times you have internal barriers and you have compliance issues and legal issues. We need to approach it as building a long-term traditional partnership with our thought leaders. You need to start building that relationship. We started doing social media trainings for our thought leaders to teach them how they can post content themselves on social media.

This is a way to start engaging in this conversation with them, and then building that partnership so that they can be happy to co-create content with us. Of course, when the content, especially on social media, comes from their peers, it's much more valued and more, let's say, reaches more people. That's maybe one of the challenges, the internal compliance challenges to approach that.

Bozidar: You said, how can I be of help? That's the question that you mentioned, like when you have that mindset, how can I be of help? How can I be your help? Help your doctor adjust to how the content is created. Maybe share the best practice you [unintelligible 00:40:30]

Julia: Look I think HCPs are human, we're human. I'm sitting here talking to you share my knowledge. They're the same. They're happy to share. I think you're right. It is about making you have the right internal procedures and that you've built relationships. You're not just asking people you've never met before. In general, if you've got a reasonable relationship with a group, like in our case was the rheumatologist for the thing, they're pretty open to speak to their own community as long as they don't feel they are selling your wares for you, as long as it's a genuine, authentic sharing my knowledge with my community, I think you'll find people are pretty open to that.

Bozidar: Thank you. We're coming back to the notion of authenticity and trust and working together. MLR teams are often the bottleneck in content creation. How can we solve for that when the volume of content is only getting bigger? I can share that little bit experience because, in our work with Novartis, which is now publicly shared, FiercePharma, two weeks ago, so that team has produced content together with their [unintelligible 00:41:43] agency and like every other company have MLR review. I think some of the best practices really keep the MLR.

If it's seen as bottleneck, that conversation won't go well. If you see them as partner, that will actually help you get the content out there, in their right in a compliant way and bring them close, work with them closely from the get-go and have enough people to review. If it's important for organization, you have enough people with the right cadence editorial calendar, so they can plan the review and use some AI tools.

There are more and more AI tools that can reduce the time by 30% to 50% of MLR review. If you set up the right structure, right people, right process, editorial calendar, starting with strategy, and link to an overarching goal, then the MLR I would say is not a bottleneck. It's actually will be a partner in this whole process.

Alec: Can I jump on that?

Bozidar: Yes.

Alec: I think we all lived it. It's a question of context and interpretation. It means we are missing positions from medical legal review teams on new things that comes to that desk. One of the things that worked well for me at Ferring, at least there were as you said partner, when we came from, for example, I don't know, social media content and community management, we need to react in less than four hours. We cannot necessarily go to every one of them. We need to have a position of what is acceptable to manage risk.

I think when you have a framework with them, so they helped create the framework of the solution, then you can replicate the framework and learn from the framework and scale that framework. I mean we used a lot to remove the interpretation effect or the brainstorming and comments in [unintelligible 00:43:28] if some of you are using that, that you have a lot of people opening doors in review comments.

If you have a position paper from the head of compliance or legal saying, that's acceptable, that this is a window of risk we are willing to take as a company, then that's it. Conversation is closed, then it's black and white again. That's what I will say can speed up the time to market.

Julia: I think though, problem is big companies make big processes. We've probably over-engineered ourselves into-- and I think it's across pharma. We may have over-engineered ourselves a little bit. It is about bringing allure up the chain and being part of the overall design. What you got to recognize, it's still a challenge. I think we've got pockets where we're doing it better.

Bozidar: I know we are three minutes of time. First all, please give them a round of applause. Thank you.

[applause]